I use Debian as my daily driver, but I’m still a newbie. I would like to selfhost a few apps, initially on a VPS, but I will probably move to a local PC once I diagnose what is broken with my old computer.
The guides at https://selfhosting.sh/ always recommend Ubuntu Server LTS for newbies, but Ubuntu seems to have bad PR and I already run Debian on my home PC. On one hand, I am a newbie and I guess Ubuntu might be easier to set up and maintain. Though, I don’t HOW exactly? On the other hand, if I have Debian on my home PC and on my server, they are the same system, so I’d be learning the same system at two places and with two usage scenarios. But it might be easier to make mistakes on Debian…?
What is your opinion/recommendation?
I use Debian as my daily driver
Chances are that you would find Ubuntu not just more complicated, but unneccessary complicated.
Stay with Debian. It can do everything.
Debian is better as a server host. Ubuntu is not easier for a server for anything except initial installation but you’ve already done that once with Debian so you’ll be fine. Only reason to use Ubuntu is if you want core software updates every 6 months and for this purpose you don’t. And can still have the option for newer software in select cases using containers.
If you’re already using Debian on desktop, then Debian on a VPS makes sense from a maintenance perspective: you only have to track one set of security updates. When there’s suddenly a critical update for some vulnerability, you can update both at once because it’s the same upstream repos. Whereas with Ubuntu on your VPS, you’d have to be mindful to make sure to check back when the same vulnerability is patched there.
Do not underestimate the effort to upkeeping a server, and do try to unify your procedures so you’re spending less time doing the necessary things, and more time building up your self hosting stack.
Ubuntu’s “reputation” is nonsense. It’s a great distro for servers. Security updates are really fast and using snaps in a server environment is really great. I recommend running things like Docker or Tailscale off snap. They will revert to a previous image if an update fails. Extra stability for a server as you run automatic updates. If you run everything that is not in the base install off a snap, you have an extra layer of sandboxing against any supply chain attack for dependencies.
Ubuntu will have more recent packages, that doesnt really matter in a server environment. Debian is otherwise fine, I just dislike it’s installer and prefer Ubuntu’s. I found it easier to sync third party drivers on Ubuntu.
Ubuntu Pro gets you livepatches for kernal issues, which may be worthwhile. Also done without rebooting.
Ubuntu also gives you better apparmour default profiles on more things, whereas on debian, its up to you to set them up.
Debian will be exactly the same, its just more conservative and has less of those extras I mentioned. May be marginally lighter on resources for that. Either are fine.
Ubuntu Pro gets you livepatches for kernal issues, which may be worthwhile.
I use Ubuntu ESM. For their free, personal tier of Ubuntu Pro, you get 5 machines or 50 for active community members.
Yep this right here, I have used Ubuntu LTS for servers both my own and for work for years now and it works fine. I also don’t think snaps are as big of a deal as people make them out to be, the only snap I am actually forced to use is the mass snap and that is a canonical product so whatever. I even use it on some rpi4/5 even and it works great for use with workloads suited for a pi. Now, 10 years ago this was a different story, but these days Ubuntu LTS is a great OS overall.
Debian is also great though (and if I was building some sort of appliance OS I would prob start with that since it has the fewest customizations to start with) but after you use any of the deb based distros enough they are all basically start to look the same to operate so pick one you want to learn and use that until you have a reason to change, learn the tools not the distro and you will be fine.
All of that said though, every distro has idiosyncrasies but the Linux CLI skills you learn are definitely transferable so it’s not as big of a choice as it is made out to be sometimes, especially now that containers and systemd are everywhere. That is …unless you decide to pick Solaris or one of the BSDs but those are a whole other animal 😀
The only thing I know about apparmour is that it breaks some permissions for a couple of my machines, and I have to disable them in the container config in order for the containers to boot
As someone who has both Ubuntu servers and Debian servers…go with Debian. It does everything Ubuntu does, but leaner and better.
It does everything Ubuntu does, but leaner
Didn’t downvote nor do I understand why someone would, but I’m curious. When you say ‘leaner’, is it leaner that standing up a minimal installation of Ubuntu server? This is what I’ve been doing for a long while, and then adding whatever I needed, which turns out to be minimal, down the road. My reasoning would be less exposure from apps that are unneeded in my scenario.
A standard install of Ubuntu Server uses more RAM, has longer boot times, and generally just needs more resources to get going. You can strip some of that out, but Debian is that way from the start. Plus, Ubuntu is just Debian with extra shit on top.
Debian is also much longer lived and stable than even Ubuntu LTS releases, so I generally have just found it to be better suited to deployments where I don’t want to fuck with it for a long time, besides monthly patching.
@chronicledmonocle @irmadlad The irony is that when Ubuntu was created in '04, one of the first features they worked on (after the initial 4.10 release) was fast booting. Debian at the time used sysvinit and booted pretty slowly. And in addition, long-term support.
Those things eventually made their way into Debian through various means; I haven’t messed with Ubuntu in years, but it’s very amusing to me to hear that Debian might boot faster than Ubuntu.
Canonical has had a lot of missteps in recent years. Some (like snaps) they still actively are shooting themselves in the foot with.
I just timed my Debian box from cold shut down to ready to go. It was 13 seconds.
My Ubuntu Server? It took 86 seconds to boot on the exact same hardware.
<Pops popcorn> Don’t mind me, I’m just here for the violence. LOL
I’m using Ubuntu Jammy LTS/ESM.
This is a safe space. We don’t kinkshame here.
I’ve got one Jammy box and one Resolute… I don’t love Canonical, but not enough hate to migrate my hosts to another distribution
It’s just something I got comfortable with long time back, and since I can drive that bus, and it does what I need it to do, I just stuck with it. I’ve never run a full blown Debian OS, so I really can’t compare the two except to say that it’s Linux.
I’ve never run a full blown Debian OS
Ubuntu is literally just Debian with Canonical’s bullshit on top.
Oh, I get it’s Debian under the hood. Like I mentioned, I just got comfortable with it and so I’ve seen no reason to switch. The OP’s situation is different tho. He started out with Debian, so it would make sense to continue with Debian.
This is a safe space. We don’t kinkshame here.
You’re installing a headless system right? Ubuntu and Debian are going to have very similar if not downright identical day to day operating procedures, including installing and setting up new things. Ubuntu is going to have software packages coming from a different repository and they may be newer (though this rarely matters) and the initial install may be different. One is backed by a for profit corporation and one by a large open source community. Whenever you need help, guides for Debian will probably work on Ubuntu and vice versa.
For home self hosting use, it boils down to you own philosophy. In practice, it won’t really matter… they’re both really similar.
I proudly use Debian BTW.
One thing I read about is that Ubuntu provides unattended updates, so it can automatically update packages and restart the server (that seems a bit too far ;) ). It’s probably possible on Debian but not out of the box.
Debian also supports “unattended-upgrades”: https://wiki.debian.org/PeriodicUpdates
I actually have it set up the same way on both: Automatically install updates (and restart some services), but don’t reboot. I don’t think it was different/easier on Ubuntu.
Overall, the two distros are very similar for a server application. If you’re already running Debian on your PC, I would also go with that for a server.
I find Debian to be the best choice unless your server requires GPU compute or transcoding, then Ubuntu becomes a better option.
I have no issues with those tasks on Debian. I would never recommend Ubuntu for a server.
I have no issues with those tasks on Debian. I would never recommend Ubuntu for a server.
Definitely Debian. You’re already used to it and personally I highly value the stability it brings for servers.
I run Debian on my homelab and manage Ubuntu Servers at work. I haven’t seen any practical differences between the two. Sometimes you might get a bit newer version of something from the Ubuntu repositories than from the Debian ones but not even once has that been an issue and most of stuff I use come from 3rd party repositories anyway.
Either is fine.
I tend towards ubuntu lts pro with automatic upgrades and reboots. Much like the guide you mention pretty much everything targets ubuntu lts.
I tend towards ubuntu lts pro with automatic upgrades and reboots.
This can be done easily on Debian, too. Without an artificial limitation.
@steel_for_humans
on a VPS you will exclusively have a terminal with ssh
to me Debian is the only choice, while you will be able to do the same, but keeping freedom rather then apps taking your hand for nothing more
Ask AI for special things, it’ll be easierAlways used Ubuntu server and would always recommend that to newbies.
